Today's guest has redefined the meaning of self-improvement. I maximize all metrics of my life. I've just come to the conclusion based on anecdotes, based on numbers, that looks are the most important metric and it would be insane to not prioritize them. They began injecting testosterone at just 14 years old, claiming that natural puberty wasn't optimized for the modern world. I started with 300 mg of testosterone, and I did that for a while up until I was 16. I'm 100% confident that I made the

right decision in my life and I'm so glad that I look a little bit more mature. >> Today at 19, he's garnered a massive audience online where he says that everything in life is determined by one thing. >> So, it's $35,000 for a double jaw surgery with full facial implants. I know the amount of money that I'm investing will pay itself off a huge degree. In this episode, we'll dive into the psychology of human attraction, explore his philosophies on genetic determinism, and unveil the extreme

measures some men take to maximize their looks. What drugs do you take in a day? I'm taking testosterone every single day. Take 7.5 milligs of Accutane a day. I use crystal for hollow cheeks. I'm not a huge longevity guy. Clvicular, welcome to the Jack Neil podcast. >> Thank you, sir. >> Clav, take me back to 14-year-old Braden. >> Mhm. What was the exact moment you decided that natural puberty wasn't enough? Well, I have always had the mentality that if something is going to

get you to your goals quicker, then why not go for it, right? So, when I was a kid, obviously I wasn't the most well-versed in pharmarmacology. So, I didn't exactly know what I was doing, but I knew that it would help me get to the place I wanted to be uh at a lot more efficient rate. So, you know, skipping out on that just seemed ridiculous. I thought, why would I work out as a natural, take years to make the progress that I can make in months? It didn't make sense to me at all. I was

never worried about side effects. I was just worried about progressing, right? So, that's kind of always been my mentality. I'm all or nothing with everything that I do. Uh, and I just I just needed to do it, you know? >> Was there a specific moment that you remember where you were like, "Yeah, I'm just going to hop on testosterone like when you're 14." um just really taking a look at uh you know what was possible and in terms of time frame I wanted to get to my goals as quickly as possible

right because I always thought the idea of you know telling people you work out and talking about all this stuff but you're not big to be just kind of ridiculous it's like dude you know what are you actually getting after so I was like I'm going to get my physique going as quickly as possible I I do not care about side effects I don't care about any implications of uh oh this guy's using drugs like none of that [ __ ] really phased me. So, I I just wanted to, you know, get to my goals as

efficiently as possible. >> So, your mom uh she competed as a bodybuilder and your dad uh lifts, works out. How did your parents react when you told them that you wanted to start taking tests? >> Well, for a while, my parents would, you know, go through my room and find stairs often, confiscate them. So that'd be a bit of a burden because sometimes I'd have to go like a few weeks without injecting testosterone. Well, you know, they confiscated it. Um, so it was hard at first, but eventually they started to

realize that there was nothing that they could do about it. I was always going to do whatever it takes. So, um, you know, once I had that realization, it got a little bit easier for everyone because, you know, they stopped confiscating it and kind of just chose to plead ignorance on everything I was doing in terms of my uh, pharmaceuticals. So that was kind of a tough thing to deal with at first, but it it got easier over the years. >> So you were in you were a freshman at the time, >> correct?

>> So freshman in high school. Were you playing any sports? Were you uh looking at any of your friends that had better physiques than you? Were you kind of looking at your parents' physique? Did they take testosterone? Like what kind of really led to the decision ultimately, you think? >> That's a good question. I wouldn't even say it was influenced by anyone else. Um it was a purely logical decision um you know in in terms of looking at you know mechanisms of action uh and things of

this nature like you know if I could you know increase this growth pathway by this means then I'm absolutely going to do it. I didn't really see people like David Leen think oh I want to be like this guy. Um I'm just like you know if this makes sense mechanistically then I'm going to do it. Like I'm a a hyperlogical guy. Um, so and I don't really get influenced by other people. >> Did you read about it online? Like how did you find like how much test you should take or did you buy it at that

age? >> So I spent a lot of time on bodybuilding forums growing up like bodybuilding.com, things like this. Uh, and I did a fair bit of research. Obviously I was, you know, not doing enough research at the time. There's things that I messed up. Um, but just going on forums was pretty much the main thing that got me into it at the start. I relied on a lot of popular resources like you know Derek more plates more dates uh to kind of accumulate the knowledge required for me to be able to take a a jump into this

whole world of you know pharmaceuticals and steroids. Um so that took a little while for me to kind of nail things down but I would say that I kind of just got lucky at the start with me doing things the right way right because looking back um I didn't know what I was doing but somehow I just happened to get it right you know. >> So how much did you take? I started with 300 milligrams of testosterone and I did that for a while uh up until I was 16 and then I experimented with a couple of

orals and finally when I was 17 uh I began to use master as well which is a DHT derivative because I started learning a little bit about puberty maxing. I would say that 16 and 17 is where I really start to to kind of correct myself and get things going in the right way with you know different growth hormone secrets and mechanisms that otherwise wouldn't have been optimized. So I started using things like aromatase inhibitors because estrogen a lot of people don't know men have estrogen it's required you know for

a lot of things like sexual function uh but it could also cause your growth uh you know plates to close prematurely. So what I did was I took something called an aromatase inhibitor which prevents the conversion of testosterone into aromomasin. That way I would be able to grow for an extended period of time. Right? So things like that I didn't pick up on until I was a little bit older. So I just started off with the the steroids and the basic stuff and then I got into like really optimizing every single

mechanism possible uh at around 16 or 17. That's where the master came in because uh with it being a DHT derivative that was going to help with obviously some penile growth um you know a little bit of masculinization. So that was uh something that was used at the right time. After you know you turn 18 and your penis stops developing there's no reason to use DHT derivatives. Um but I kind of used it at the perfect time. >> So how much extra growth would you say you had on like just your height alone?

I would speculate that about one and a half inches uh of my height would be attributed to, you know, the things that I did because uh while my dad is 6'1, my mom is only 5'4. So, you know, I would assume that I would probably be a little bit shorter than I am, you know, by about an inch and a half, but it really is hard to say. So, you say you're very logical about your looks and the different types of drugs you experiment with, but a lot of people will think there's something deeply emotional about a teenager

deciding that puberty isn't enough. Do you think there was any pain you were trying to solve? I really don't think so. And that's going to be something that a lot of people aren't going to believe me on, but um that's just not my personality at all. Right. In terms of insecurity, it's just not something I've really ever experienced. Like, uh, I've been hyper aware that, you know, over the course of of development, you know, there were some points in my life where

I really was like very, you know, suboptimal in terms of my aesthetics, but I was like okay with that because I knew that there was things that I could do and I knew that the measures would be extreme, but I was like, well, you know, this is kind of what it what it takes, you know, and I was always someone who's willing to do whatever it takes. >> So, would you say it made you more confident after you did do these things? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's for the best because you get

to experience life on the other side, right? Pe these people, these looks Max creators, we're all genetically gifted. They don't really understand, you know, how it is to to grow up not exactly good-looking. Um, you know, so it never made me insecure. I never really had my life altered in any way. I just knew that something needed to change. >> Quote, "People say I look older than 19. I'd rather look like a man at 19 than a boy at 25. >> Absolutely. >> If you could go back in time, would you

still take test at 14 years old? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, everything I did, uh, no regrets, right? So, I'm 100% confident that I made the right decision in my life. And I'm so glad that I look a little bit more mature, uh, you know, than I actually am in terms of my age, uh, because it's helped me a lot. You know, we could talk about, you know, some of the jobs that I've worked and the respect that I've gained from just having a little bit more presence in my life from, you know, some of the

pharmaceuticals I've taken. Literally the best thing that anyone could do. >> Yeah. Guys, for reference, I'm 24 years old and Clav is a full 5 years younger than me. When I met you, I thought you were at least 23. >> Mhm. >> What's like the scientific reason that like you look older? >> Um, so it has to do with your androgen receptors, right? So obviously if we're, you know, having super physiological amounts of testosterone at a young age, um, our androgen receptors are are going

to be hit by that and, you know, we're just going to masculineize our face, uh, a little bit more. I've also used things like HGH. So just all these different growth pathways being elevated led to, you know, me looking a little bit older. >> Okay. Um, so when most people discover that they're not naturally gifted, they typically work harder, they train more. Um, if they don't have any money, they start working longer hours, try to start a business. But you decided to rewrite

your biology. >> Why do you value results over effort? >> It's a good question. um because it's what people see, right? It's the first thing that someone is going to lay eyes on. They're not going to know how you got to your goal. They're just going to know whether you're there or not, right? So, uh first impressions are all that matter. You know, when you tell people that you're on stero after they see your physique and they're it's already, you know,

conceived in their head that it's impressive, it's not really going to change their perception. That's what I've learned. So, it's all about, you know, the external appearance, you know. Do you value hard work at all? >> No, absolutely not. I I value efficient work. I value smart work. Hard work is a ridiculous concept. >> Why do you think so many people value the concept of working hard? Do you think it's ultimately because those people tend to have results?

>> I think people value hard work because you learn a lot on your journey, right? So in terms of fitness, if you're working out for 5 years, you're going to, you know, acquire a lot of knowledge in those times. Maybe you're going to make a lot of mistakes and you could look back on those and realize, hey, I wasing this up and now when you're at the place of, you know, you know a lot about fitness, you know a lot about training. Um, it's kind of a cool process to undergo looking at your

transformation over the years, but that's not something that's ever interested me. So, I would say that that's probably why people value hard work. It's just, you know, the journey. >> Yeah. So many people value the journey because of the person they become on the other side. Do you think there's like anything that you're missing from not having to work as hard necessarily uh to like achieve the results you had in the gym or do you think that you've like it's allowed you to achieve the

knowledge faster and like the character traits of someone who works out faster? I would say that it's definitely made me like the gym less uh you know to be enhanced like because as a natural uh it is really fun to see your transformation over years and it it makes it so much more rewarding when it takes a lot longer to you know have this good physique and know what it took to get there. It it means a lot more to you especially when you continue to work out, continue to progress. It is really

meaningful. Uh so I don't have that but I'm not necessarily concerned about that. I personally hate going to the gym now. Uh, you know, I find it, you know, kind of shitty to to start the day, have to go to the gym. I think of it as a chore at this point because I'm just like so done with it. Um, you know what I mean? Because I know I could progress at a lot higher levels if I start taking like an oral steroid, for example, for 3 months. Then the three months is done and I know I'm progressing uh, you know,

at a limited rate. So, it just like kind of ruins the whole novelty. But when you're a natty, you know, everything is kind of just consistent. So you're always going to value you think every single day you're progressing where that might not be true when you're using steroids, you know, >> like if there was a pill you could take that would make you as smart as possible, already learn everything, uh be as jacked as possible, look perfect, like would you take that? >> Absolutely.

>> And then what else would you do past that? uh well I would be at my goal and I'd have to re-evaluate my life see what I wanted to do next because uh right now uh this is the journey part for me you know so I'm not interested in just some lame like you know fitness journey where I'm natural the journey is a lot more you know interesting in my case right so because I'm trying to optimize every single metric of my life I'm not only interested in fitness right I am trying

to IQ max I'm trying to money max like all these different things. Um, obviously, you know, for the the normies watching this, I say max at the end of everything. Maximize. Um, just for that clarification. Um, but yeah, so I'm I'm just trying to do so much more than the average person that uh I kind of have to cheat my way and cheat the system a little bit to be able to manage all these different things. Kareem Shammy on our other podcast, his last piece of advice that he wanted to leave the

viewers was uh none of this matters if you don't have health and health is the most important thing. Uh why don't you or do you prioritize health? I would say no. I think I would wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. You know, I would say that functionality is a better word than health, right? um because it is very likely that some of my lifespan will be diminished with the things that I'm doing. Uh I don't believe that's from some of the steroids, but you know, maybe some of

the recreational drugs in conjunction with the steroid, you know, so that's a very real possibility. But in terms of like functional health, uh you know, I'm fantastic, right? You know, I'm I'm always very sharp. Um so there there's nothing wrong in terms of that, in terms of the way I feel every day. So that that's kind of all I'm concerned about. >> So you don't care about maximizing your lifespan as much as your dayto-day? Yeah, I'm not a huge longevity guy.

>> Do you think you'll ever stop taking steroids? >> No, absolutely not. I think uh you know how how much in terms of you know dosing that will definitely start to lower as I get a little bit older, you know, because once you get to a certain point maintaining what you've built is a lot easier than getting to a certain goal, right? So I'll have to lower down to TRT dosages. Um you know, you want to start having kids and stuff like that. Uh you know, the dose has to come down. You

can't take certain steroid uh things of this nature. So, absolutely. Yeah. Once I'm I'm very satisfied with where I am in terms of my physique, you know, I'll just start to maintain it. >> So, you call yourself very reasonable about what's accomplishable. Why are you spending $100,000 on surgery to go from 6'2 to 6'6? >> That is more about just presence, right? I've always valued presence super super highly. Right? You walk into a room, people notice, right? you're

standing in the middle of a club, you're an outlier, right? That to me just because people will come up to me, they'll say, "Oh, well 6'2, you know, that's already that's already very tall." But in terms of percentiles, it's only 91st percentile, right? 6'6, we get to 99th. I'm someone who wants to be the best, right? And I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get there. So that's why, you know, I'm seriously considering that limb lengthening

surgery. >> So you want to be 99th percentile at all aspects of life. Absolutely. >> Except maybe longevity. >> Yeah, maybe not longevity. >> So, explain to me the limb lengthening surgery. Uh I didn't know that you could do that. Uh how do you do that and like what are the negatives involved? >> So, you know, there's there's a lot of different clinics that do limb lengthening surgery and there's different techniques used, but the best is actually Dr. Paley in West Palm

Beach. So, maybe about 30 minutes away from where I'm living now. So, that's a very real possibility. The unfortunate part about limb lengthening surgery is almost no one is going to be able to do it because you're going to have to be out of work for 6 months to a year, right? Um you're going to be hospitalized for the first 3 weeks. You're pretty much immobile for the first 3 months and the the next 3 months after that, you know, you're really not going to be able to walk without

crutches and stuff like that. So getting away from work for that long is just not possible by most people. And not to mention the outrageous prices, right? So unless you're kind of, you know, making online money, it's it's just not something to even consider. >> And then how does it work exactly? Like uh what where does it go? Like is it just your legs? Like >> Yeah. So they're going to lengthen both of the limbs, right? So they could do your femurss uh and they could add to

the lower legs as well. That's called a double LL. Um and then you have to wear distractors that slowly help the bone, you know, fuse back together and heal. Um, so it's a very treacherous process. It's very painful. Um, you know, you have to be under close supervision with doctors and you know, it just you really have to gauge the value. Is this something that's worth it to you? Because it it's a horrible process and there's no beating around the bush on that. >> So you see it as reasonable because it

would put you in the 99th percentile. But my issue with that is like is 99th percentile optimal always? Because I guess maybe if you're 99th percentile of being fat or 99th percentile of having a high IQ, you might get diminishing returns. Like how do you kind of view that? >> Um I don't really think it's everyone knows that being fat is a negative thing. So I don't really think it's accurate to make that comparison. >> Um we know it's good. We know tall is good. And we could back that up with

research, right? We know that every single inch, you know, you you grow past six foot, you're adding like an additional $500 to your average annual income in America. So, we know that taller is better. We know that fat is worse. Like, these are things we could back up with research and they're absolute. So, I think it's very reasonable knowing these disparities, knowing things about, you know, dating app statistics and how women are literally just filtering out people completely uh under outrageous height

percentiles, right? We'll see women put their height filters on 6'3 and then you actually look at, you know, percentiles and we're like, you just eliminated 95 percentiles worth of men right off the bat with one filter and one metric. So, while it might be outrageous at at first thought, if we look at actually what's going on in the world, you know, you start to find it quite reasonable for the times. >> Why doesn't everyone do this just because of the money? >> Um, I just don't really think that

people are logical. I think that people want to live in fantasy land. It that's the blue pill, you know. So, they they prefer to cope. They prefer not to know these things, but uh just someone with my brain chemistry, someone who's a little bit neurode divergent, it's just kind of unavoidable, right? I I can't live in fantasy land. It's not possible for me. >> So, it seems like you shifted from bodybuilding to looks maxing. Obviously, you still do both, but why do you believe that face matters more than your

physique? Uh so I started coming to that realization when I started doing massive what's called a bulk where you're eating a caloric surplus for the gym and I noticed that you know my treatment in my daily life from when I was a little bit leaner um you know just starting out in the gym just getting a little toned I was actually getting treated worse even though I was getting more muscle I was a lot bigger and I was like hey what's going on? So then that's kind of where I started reading on bodybuilding.com

uh some things about how you know people would come on and [ __ ] post and troll about how the face is all that matters and you know that that bodybuilding and physique it was cope and I was like hey this this doesn't really make sense and the more that I thought about it it kind of started to make sense you know uh just thinking about it from a woman's perspective realizing with my personal anecdotes you know that the face is more important and everything started to get worse as my face gotten more bloated,

gotten more acne from from doing the caloric surplus. Um, so so it was a combination of those two things that made me kind of re-evaluate and change my course a little bit. >> So if you had to give me where you spend your time like working on, would you say it's 30% effort on the physique, 70% on the face, or >> absolutely. Yeah, I'd say that's accurate. >> And then how limited is the average person genetically? I guess we can speak about Yes. body versus face, but can

they ascend uh as the looks maxing community would put it, like go from like a five to a seven if we're speaking like on a scale from one to 10 through natural methods or do they need surgeries, medications, peptides? >> So, that's a really good question and the answer isn't as simple as you think, right? So, the average person can make a lot of progress. It's just an IQ issue. That's the genetic issue that we're facing is IQ because people aren't going to be logical enough uh like I said

before they want to live in fantasy land so they're not going to do the things that are actually required uh to make the progress that that's needed. So it really comes down to that. But if someone is hyperlogical uh you know doing the things that I'm doing they can probably go up in in look scale by 30 to 40 percentiles I would say. And then how about their physique? >> Your physique? I mean, the sky's is the limit with that. That's something that's, you know, almost anyone could

could really hit a a a huge increase on. Quick one. If you agree with Clav's message and you're serious about improving your look, you guys are going to want to check out Clav's community on school. Once you're inside, you get access to over 100 courses on looks maxing, pharmarmacology, neutropics, and social skills. Plus, you get weekly calls with Clav to get feedback and guidance in real time. So, if you guys want the absolute best information on looking better and access to a community

of people who want to improve their look, just go to jacknil.com/clav or you can scan the QR code on screen. I've been working on my look for the past few years and honestly, I haven't met very many people as knowledgeable as clicular, so you guys are going to want to check this one out. But anyway, back to the podcast. So, do you think like I don't know you and I um with our frames now if we took the right set of drugs could be like bodybuilder level like uh Mr. Olympia. Absolutely not. You know,

absolutely not. That that's not possible. And that's uh a lot of people's, you know, reason to not take ser because they don't want to look like Mr. Olympia guys. And it's like that's just so ridiculous to me. You never will even if you wanted to. You just that will never happen to you. Um, you know, I'm not the largest guy myself. I'd say I'm, you know, reasonably big for, you know, the amount of drug exposure I've had and how old I am. Um, but no, you will never get to that point. You can't

accidentally get big. And it's just so discrediting to people's genetics and their hard work to even suggest that that could be a possibility for you. It just really in infuriates me to hear that talking point. >> Clav, why are you getting a double jaw surgery? I am getting a double jaw surgery due to the fact that I know the amount of money that I'm investing will pay itself off to a huge degree. Right? So, it's $35,000 for a double jaw surgery and with full facial implants.

And I decided upon this before I did social media uh back when I was working as a server. And I knew that if I was better looking that that would pay itself off in terms of whatever I did with my career. uh because I knew that, you know, your looks play into a role of are you going to get hired, right? How people treat you just in terms of how I was getting tipped, right? So all these different things. Uh I was starting to notice a lot more about how looks played into your, you know, your income. So it

was, you know, a a money thing, right? So that that's how it started out. And now that I got into the world of social media, I know that I will go, you know, insanely more viral and it'll help my career a lot to do the double jaw surgery. It's not insecurity, right? Um there's nothing I can't do with my current looks package, right? I'm I'm already having pretty much the life I want. It's just I know that uh you know the return on investment is extremely high. And I think that's true for

everyone. >> So, walk me through like if we take a step back like when did you realize what that was? Kind of explain it to me. Um explain what you'll have to go through and what the results could look like negatively. is I decided to I wanted the double jaw surgery. So what I had to do is get a headcat scan, right? So I had to go to an imaging center. They scan my skull and then that gets sent to an implant designer. Right? He comes in and he customizes the titanium implants based on my skull with custom screws and

guides. Um and that gets sent to a factory to be produced. Right now all the titanium parts are being produced. My surgery's coming soon. And then now I'm going to have to fly to Istanbul. That's the location of my surgery. That's kind of like the hot spot in the world for plastic surgery. Uh I would argue that Italian surgeons are better, but sometimes they won't do uh some of the more blackpilled uh extreme movements that a Turkish surgeon will right for example they wouldn't do an

implant under, you know, your temporal muscles or they won't give you as extreme advancements in terms of millimeters. Uh and sometimes they straight up won't even give surgery to people who are uh good-looking, you know. So that's kind of the downfall of Italy. So that's kind of why I had to go to Turkey. Um so I'm going to Istanbul to a maxelo facial surgeon who is going to place the implants that uh you know Giant Implants who's my implant designer custom made >> and that's the only surgery you're

getting or you getting a couple? >> It's kind of like a few surgeries done at once. Right. So the surgery is called a BAX. It's a double jaw surgery. Right. So they're going to make a an osteotomy in the upper jaw, my maxilla, and advance it forward and the lower jaw. It's called a BSSO, and advance both of the jaws forward. And on top of that, during the same process, during the same hospital stay to save money, they also place the implants. >> So it's kind of just an all-in-one

process. And I'll also be getting a rhinoplasty during the same thing. >> So the looks maxing community kind of has its own rating system. And then your average person has its own rating system, however variant it may be. I would guess that you've asked women to rate you before, like just normally, right? >> No, >> no, no, no. Or like you've got a rating from a woman like on the street or something. >> No, >> no. Nothing like that. I >> I mean, I've had women just, you know,

say it to me without me prompting them for it. I would just feel really weird saying, "Hey, can you rape me?" Like, that just seems a little bit ridiculous. But I've heard women, you know, say, you know, the rating to me. >> But you would say on average you're probably like eight, nine, 10 from people. Like if a 100 women rated you, that would probably be accurate on the normal person scale. Um, >> right. >> And then what would that kind of be on the looks maxing scale? Because I think

what most people look at you and think is this guy doesn't need to go from 6'2 to 66. You explain the reason for that. And then this guy doesn't need to change his face any because he already has like a really well above average face if not already in the 99th percentile. Well, what I want to say to that is extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, right? And the extraordinary times are just how hypergamous women are nowadays, right? They're dating way above their looks

level, way above their means. Uh and the men who are not at the top percentiles are are left with nothing, right? because uh everyone's extremely sexually promiscuous, having tons of different sexual partners. Uh but this is the top, right? And then everyone who's who's not close, they're like, "What the you know what I mean?" So that's kind of the the world that we're living in now. So I would say that, you know, with how crazy [ __ ] is, you know, I might not be the

crazy one after all for the methods I'm talking about. >> So do you think this will technically ascend you by like a full point or do you think it's going to be? >> Absolutely. I would say uh one to two points is is definitely accurate. >> And then I guess I haven't really browsed the forms of the looks maxing community, but this is something that you were involved in like from a young age, right? >> Correct. >> So what would like have you submitted a photo of yourself there and asked for a

rating or like have you gotten ratings before? Like kind of give us an idea. >> Yeah. So um I've been rated what's called a high tier normie is what a lot of people say. So the scale is low tier normie, mid-tier normie, high tier normie, Chad light and Chad, right? So to quantify that is a little bit difficult to, you know, kind of explain that to normal people because normal people would assume that the average is a seven, right? Or this is what I always hear. You know, women will always tend

to rate people that they find average 50th percentile as a seven, which is ridiculous, right? Because an average person would be a five on the look scale. Uh, right? So people are are placing me high tier normie as a little bit above average between a six to a 6.5 on an actual decile scale. That makes sense, >> you know. So that that's kind of where I am, a six to a 6.5. >> So you would say that surgery would uh increase your score by one two points. But if the surgery went wrong, like it

would if the surgery was botched, like what would happen? What's the worst case scenario? Uh the worst case scenario is an infection, right? So that would mean that I would have to get the implant removed, do a three-month course of antibiotics, and get it replaced. Uh so that's a botch, right? But in terms of not getting the aesthetic result desired, um you know, that's certainly a possibility that you're like, "Hey, like I don't exactly know if I I like how I look. I look a little bit too masculine,

too striking, things like that." Um but implants can certainly be removed, right? revisions can be made. It's just a very daunting process because you're like, "Oh, wow. I just got the surgery. I'm done. Now I'm ready to to mog. I ascended." And then you're like, "Shit, I really don't like this. I'm actually uh worse off now." I don't really think that that's a likelihood for me, but it certainly is a possibility, right? So, I'm willing to acknowledge it, but uh

revisions can be made and I do have the resources to correct any uh errors if possible. Um so, I'm not too worried about that. It certainly would suck if I had to get things revised, but I don't really think that that's a high likelihood. >> And then when it comes to attraction, how would you differentiate what the average person thinks of attraction? Well, I can just answer this. It would probably be things like symmetry, healthy hair, um maybe like a tan, but what do what are all the factors

considered in kind of your community? So, it's a huge numbers thing. It's really autistic. Um but everything is about numbers right and measurements. So that could be the measurement of your eyes based on, you know, the width of your zygos, you know, in relativity. That could be your midface ratio, right? So the distance from your eyes, you know, to your to the outer part of your lips. Uh, and this is supposed to be one one, your midface, the facial width, right? The width of your jaw relative to

the width of your cheekbones. There's just all these different numbers and then it gets you what's called a harmony score, right? So, you take all these different measurements, you do the math, you check it out on your face, and then we're going to get a percentage harmony score. And that's kind of a good way to determine your looks, but there's also other factors that play into things like how dorphic you are, like how masculine you look, and how angular you are, how lean you are, and how good your coloring

is, right? If you have blue eyes, if you're tan, things like that. So, there's a lot of different factors. Um, and it's just something you kind of understand intrinsically once you've been in the community for a long time. So, who would you say is like an ideal looking guy? Uh, I think the term is true Adam or maybe Chad. Like, yeah. Who is like a guy who's pretty high up on this scale? >> So, in terms of the numbers thing, the the closest person we get to perfection is is Matt Bmer, right? Uh, from White

Collar. You guys know Neil Cafrey, I'm sure most people have seen. Um, so he gets to about a 94% harmony score, which I believe is the highest. So, in terms of like pure numbers, he would be considered the the true atom is is a term I see a lot on TikTok. I find it a little ridiculous. Um, you know, but yeah, so he he would be the closest it gets, but you know, there there are some people who argue that there's other people who are better looking, maybe because they're slightly more dimorphic,

a little bit more striking, things like that, even if they have a lower harmony score. >> So, who came up with all this? >> Uh, so this has been around for thousands of years, right? When we think of the midface ratio uh being 1:1, this is something that was, you know, made in ancient Greece, right? So, um these are not numbers that just autistic people on forums came up with 5 years ago. This is like, you know, really it's it's almost like the Fibonacci sequence is the way that I think about it, right? Because

it's something that we all subconsciously know to be true. Um and it was identified very early on in history. So Clive, you say that looks are everything, but at one point you said you wouldn't leave your girlfriend at the time for a model. >> Is that true? >> Yeah, that was true. >> So do you care about looks when it comes to dating uh or maybe even your close relationships? And do you think it's the most important thing in your personal life? Well, I care about my looks and I

think that my looks are are very important to me, but in terms of just being happy with, you know, my my romantic life, um, you know, I think that personality is a huge thing. So, I think that those are two completely separate issues. Um, so I I absolutely stand by that. You know, >> do you maybe see that as a bit contradictory because the whole looks are the main thing that matters uh is based on the fact that everyone else subconsciously thinks they matter, but you yourself don't even like place that

that as the most important thing. >> Uh I absolutely think it's a it could be a little bit contradictory, but the thing is I'm playing a game and trying to get a result, right? So, uh I know that looks are going to help me maintain my relationship more. uh you know, help whatever long-term partner I'm with, you know, see a lot more value in me, uh actually be able to love me to a higher degree. So, I I know these things are true, but I don't really think that that's true for me, right? I think that

um if I'm attracted to someone, then I'm not really too worried about whether their midface ratio is 1:1, right? It's just like I if I'm able to be attracted to them, then I'm able to be attracted to them. But I know that uh you know women are a little bit different uh you know with hypergamy and all this stuff that we talked about trying to date beyond their means. So I'm like in the back of my mind I know uh you know that I kind of have to be a little bit more on top of my game than uh women do.

>> So do you think looks are the most important thing for women? >> Um I would say so. Absolutely. Without a doubt. >> Like for them to get men like would you say that's the most important thing for women to focus on? >> Absolutely. Yeah. because right the first impression is everything and the first impression will always be looks. Um but I don't really think it's it's a good idea for me to say um you know I would leave my girlfriend in a second for a top tier model, right? because

obviously, you know, if the two were standing next to each other, uh, before I had been romantically involved with either, you're obviously going to go with the top tier model. But once you've actually built a connection and, you know, some sort of long-term thing with someone and you actually start to love them, uh, it's a little bit different, right? You're not just going to leave them in the blink of an eye, uh, you know, for someone who's a little bit better looking. That's just not really

how it works. I don't really think that's how it works for women too who have optimal brain chemistry, but a lot of the women we see today would probably do that. >> What does it mean to be low inhibition? >> So, being low inhibition is low anxiety. Uh, you know, having a low amount of certain neurotransmitters that are linked to anxiety. Um, and just being able to kind of do and say whatever you want without, you know, spiking your cortisol, getting really anxious. Uh, just being free is the best way to to

put it. That's always been me. I've really never cared about anyone's opinion. Never really cared about embarrassing myself, getting rejected, getting shot down. These are just not things that register in my brain, you know. So, um, it's genetic and it's different for everyone. Some people deal with horribly high inhibition and it's life ruining. Uh, but that's just never been me. >> Yeah. Do you think alcohol is evil but necessary? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Alcohol is the best

way to block some of the neurotransmitters that are are going to cause people to have anxiety. It's going to make you more sociable. It's going to make you more loose, more low inhib. Uh but it's a temporary solution. That's why it's it's a huge problem because once you start to rely on alcohol for your social results for getting women, you know, when you're not drunk and when you're not intoxicated, your baseline state is still the same shitty version that it is. Um and that could lead to

alcoholism. People are going to constantly start to drink, you know, for daytime social events, right? To go to someone's birthday party. Um, so, so that's why I really don't like to suggest drinking, but is a phenomenal way to just give yourself a little bit of an edge in night life and in certain situations. >> Yes. So, you have a background in night life that I think has shaped uh some of your beliefs today. So, aside from like the stats on dating apps and women choosing the top percentile of men, like

what's kind of shaped your views around women? Um, and what did you used to do in nightife? So, I was a bouncer for a little while and that kind of helped me make a lot of necessary observations to shape kind of how I think about everything, right? So, I was noticing who was going home with the pretty girls every night and I noticed it was really about 1 to 2% of men, right? So, uh it was people who were very tall, people who were very good-looking. This is something I was noticing over my formative years when I was a teenager

growing up, right? So, um, making these observations, kind of seeing that sometimes good-looking people would be able to go up to women and start making out with them without saying anything, I kind of started to shift my worldview a little bit and realize, hey, okay, so this is like the most important metric and I have to go all in. >> Do you think status is more important than looks? >> Absolutely not. >> No, >> no, >> nothing else. I I think that status can get you further than looks sometimes,

but in terms of practicality, uh to beat people out in terms of looks, you have to be so outrageously well resourced that it just doesn't seem like something that's even worth suggesting or talking about because the average person will never get there. the average person can improve their looks a lot more than their status, you know, uh, in terms of like what's actually accomplishable to be able to be hooking up with like top tier models. You really have to be like, you know, seven to

eight figure tier to be able to compete with some of these top looking guys, you know. So, I would say start with the looks, but uh, also go with the status. It's that, you know, the two metrics are are majorly important, but what's actually possible for most people, uh, I'd say start with looks. >> So, what you're speaking about here seems to be a lot on the front end of like meeting a woman or connecting with a guy, but as far as like long-term relationship happiness, would you say

from your experience that a woman is more happy with a guy who's rich but not very good-looking, or a guy that's good-looking but not very wealthy, he's broke? Uh, a woman who's with a man who's rich and not good-looking will never truly love her. Okay, this is a term called beta boxing, right? Where a guy is only able to, you know, have a girl, you know, be with him simply due to his money. That's a that's a beta boxer. Um, so they will never look at your eyes and be able to love you. And

and that's a horrible reality to face. Uh, and it's really sad and I think a lot of them know that, but they're just okay with it because it's a way to overcome the disparity of, you know, the modern dating market, right? So, they've realized that, hey, this is kind of what I have to do. And it's out of necessity, but it it's still sad at the end of the day. >> Yeah. This kind of contradicts a philosophy that I heard Myron Gaines talking about yesterday when we spoke.

uh he said that guys if you don't have any money or any status uh you just always going to be worried about a dude uh with more money than you taking your girl. Do you kind of see it the opposite way? >> I do. Absolutely. It's the complete opposite way. I think he's he's dead wrong on that point. Um it will always be, you know, someone who's better looking who's going to screw things up for you, right? Uh because women aren't really logical people. They won't sit

there and think, "Hey, I'm in this uh, you know, relationship where I have millions of dollars at my disposal. Uh, you know, things are really good for me. I'm in a gated community. I'm safe." They just don't think like, "I'm not going to mess things up." They will just do irrational things like hook up with the gardener who's a Chad or something like that. Obviously, Chad wouldn't be a gardener, but you get the picture, you know? So, they're just not very rational

people. You've admitted that your content is dangerous because people misinterpret it. Correct. If you know that, why do you keep spreading it out there? Um, because I think that I offer comprehensive resources, right? So, I do long form content as well where if you actually, you know, go through and listen to everything I'm saying, don't think take things out of content, out of context rather, uh, you know, things can go really well for you. We're talking about dangerous, you know,

pharmaceutical drugs. Um, and with short form content, it is hard sometimes to, you know, fully comprehensively explaining everything. But, uh, you know, when I I funnel things to my YouTube, I I see less of a problem with it, right? And I always tell people, don't rely on a 30- secondond video to make a decision on things. I'm kind of just spreading awareness uh on various different methods and I expect people to do a little bit more diligent research uh in terms of you know peptides and

pharmaceuticals before you know just half-hazardly taking things. >> What's a sign that someone isn't attractive? >> Um do people not want to talk to the elevator? Do they not even look at you when walking by? I think these are just signs like these are subtleties. Uh do people treat you really negatively uh you know all the time in your life? Are are people rude to you? Just do they never smile? Uh things like that. You know, do people look away if you make eye contact and look disgusted? Uh you

just kind of start to pick up on it as you're, you know, going through life as an unattractive person. Uh and you know, people subconsciously know that they're not good-looking. Uh you don't have to be a Looks maxer. You don't have to go through these black pill Lookxmax forms to know and get rated. It's just it's something intrinsic. It's something subconscious, you know, when you're ugly, and it's a horrible thing to deal with. >> A big one for me, and this is pretty

controversial to say, but I had this friend who was really good-looking, uh, and he whistled at some girls, and I was like, "Oh my god, like, don't do that, bro." Like, women hate getting cat called. And they all kind of uh waved back at him were like, "Hey, like, how's it going?" And I was like, "There's no way that just happened. I'd never experienced someone doing that in my life." Uh I'm sure you've had like similar experiences to that maybe.

>> Yeah. So in terms of what you can get away with, the threshold goes through the roof as you get better looking, right? You can do things that unattractive people can never fathom, right? You could see sometimes when I was working in nightife, people would just go up to checks, just grab them right away and and start dancing, making out with them without saying a word. You try to do that as an unattractive male, uh you know, someone's going to start screaming rape, right? So these are just

the disparities and the differences between living as an unattractive male and living as an attractive male. You know, just you kind of have to go about things differently. What's acceptable is vastly different. >> Yeah, I think I would agree. But guys, that does not mean do those things. It just means that some guys are able to get away with them. Uh so what is the halo effect? >> The halo effect is, you know, going on right what we were just talking about. um you know, everything is going to be

perceived better when you're better looking, right? So certain traits like if you're someone who, you know, is on their computer all day, they're going to be like, "Oh, wow. He's so shy. He's so nerdy. Like this is this is so cute." Whereas if you're unattractive, you know, you're a computer gamer. You're, you know, sitting in your room all day. Oh, that guy's a [ __ ] weirdo. That guy's a [ __ ] creep. Stuff like this. So it's just the way different actions

that you do are perceived will be vastly changed by your looks level. What's an example of this that sticks out to you in particular? K Shami and I talked about uh how serial killers would often get like better sentences or like people would make edits of them on Tik Tok. But what's something you >> Yeah. So attractive prisoners get 40% less uh you know on their prison sentence than unattractive you know prisoners uh or or people on trial rather. So that's an example of the halo

effects. I'd say that the biggest like in-your-face uh example of this was Jeremy Meeks. I don't know if you're familiar with who that is. Uh so Jeremy Meeks goes to jail for I believe it was assault and battery, right? And he gets bailed out by women on Facebook because they they thought he was attractive, right? So just stuff like this. And he becomes a a model from committing a crime. So that's probably the biggest halo effect that's even like imaginable. And almost no one will be able to

experience that level of it. But that's just like the pinnacle halo effect that you commit a crime that's awful and you become a model and you have girls fall in love with you. >> So women on Facebook bailed him out. >> Correct. Yeah. >> That's insane. I didn't know that part of the story. Um he also there was an interview of him where he was like, "Yeah, man. It's just hard work um that gets you there." >> And he also had like a funny like Freudian slip in the interview. He's

like, "Never get up, man." But uh you know these guys are being incredibly disingenuous when they say stuff like that. Every male models interview is honestly just rage fuel. Like the stuff that they're saying and you could tell that they're just like trying not to laugh at the [ __ ] that they're saying in the interview. How disingenuous it is. Oh, you just got to be a good person. Looks are only 30% of it. After building a career on being good-looking, it's like, dude, just give me a break. So, um

I always find those to be quite funny. So to kind of encapsulate everything that we've been saying so far, if you had to put it simply, Clav, why do you look max? >> I lux purely from a logical standpoint. I'm trying to improve the quality of my life and I have come to the conclusion that this is the best means to do so. I know that looks are the most important metric and it's something that's super within my grasp. Right? I maximize all metrics of my life, but I I've just come

to the conclusion based on anecdotes, based on numbers, that looks are the most important metric. And it would be insane to not prioritize them. That's why I looks Max. It's not insecurity. It's not a trend for me. It's just I I'm doing everything I can to improve. What's the most important moment of your childhood for us to understand who you are? I think the most important moment of my childhood was not I'll I'll just explain maybe I'll extend it a little bit, you know, past just one

specific instance because I never had like something super brutal that was like memorable like, you know, pants pulled down in the middle of the cafeteria tier. But it was really just how many social outings I was missing out on. um you know due to the fact that I was you know slightly neurode divergent and I think my lack of of getting the halo effect because I I didn't really grow up attractive. Um so I think these things and I would just be sitting uh you know in my room a lot of the time on

like you know Friday nights and stuff like that. That kind of led me down the rabbit hole I would say. I think it wound up, you know, being for the best. But that kind of made me realize like, you know, I saw often all the attractive people being super socialable and me not so much. So that that was probably one of the most formative things. So the looks maxing community talks about two concepts. So there's soft maxing and hard maxing. >> Um maybe you kind of want to differentiate these. And what I was

going to ask is there are there any useful soft maxes? >> Absolutely. So soft maxes are things that are not very extreme lux maxes. That would be something like getting a tan, getting lean. Uh and these are phenomenal, right? Soft maxing is actually going to get you uh in terms if we were to make a pie chart on what's accomplishable uh from soft maxing and hard maxing. Soft maxing really can be like 70% of of your gains, right? Uh because you could get all the surgeries in the world, but if you're high body

fat, you're not going to be able to see the bones that you're augmenting, right? So, it really does go a long way to just get tan and get lean. Those two things will ascend you pretty much the the most than any other crazy looks max like bone smashing and surgery. So, those are the two things that are actually going to matter most. Little tip if you want to improve your look, but you're not sure what products actually work. So, a friend of ours, K Shammy, has spent the last couple years testing different

ingredients to make formulas that actually improve your face. If you're feeling bloated, want to get leaner, you can take debloat, and this will minimize water retention and give you that chiseled look in your face. It's one of my favorite supplements. All of our friends use it, and it takes just a few hours to kick in before you see that noticeable change. K's company, Ascend Labs, also just released a brand new formula called Uglow, which gives you a brighter look and a consistent glow on

your face. So, if you guys want formulations that actually make you look visibly better, just go to jackneil.com/ascend and you can get 10% off your first order. Also, you can scan the QR code on screen or hit the first link in the description. But anyway, guys, back to the podcast. >> Uh, and then to push the limits and take things a step further, uh, that's where hard maxing comes in, right? So, hard maxing is taking pharmaceutical drugs, it's getting surgery, it's steroids,

things like this. >> So, I wanted to go through uh some maxes in general, just ways to uh ascend yourself. Okay. >> So, you can give me the segment's called cope or dope. >> Cope or dope. Okay. >> So, dope is good. Cope is that shit's bad. Is that right? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. >> Growing a beard. >> Um, it's contextual. I'll explain that. Why it's contextual. So, certain people with really suboptimal uh, you know, facial development, right? Their maybe

their mandibles really recessed. If you can grow a beard that can give your face uh a little bit more structure uh the perception of more development, then absolutely, right? We see this with the the guy who's going viral, the Ali guy. Uh he's got a really recessed face or Andrew Tate might be even better example. Super recessed chin. Uh has has no facial dimmorphism when he's clean shaven. So that's someone who ascends from a beard and that's when it's dope, right? But I would say that if you've

got a strong jawline uh and your facial proportions are good, then I would say it's cope. >> So the top tier men usually don't have beards. >> No. >> Mewing. >> Mewing is dope. And it's actually required during development. Uh you know, if you have improper tongue posture and improper breathing habits, then you're not going to develop correctly. You could have the best parents in the world, best genetics, but you know, if you've got horrible habits, uh you won't develop into, you know, the

best version of yourself. So definitely dope. >> Bone smashing. Bone smashing can be cope uh you know if you don't understand the use of it right so bone smashing is dope if you realize that the swelling is what you want right so in terms of going out before nightlife what I'm trying to do with bone smashing what my goal of it is is to simulate uh more zygomatic uh you know prominence right so more projection so what I do is I use the swelling to my advantage so I'll bone smash and then I

will cover up the inflammation with makeup that way, you know, it looks people perceive my zygos as being a lot bigger from the bone but not the swelling itself. >> So, that's how I use it and make it dope. I could send you some pictures to pop up uh on the screen of like how I look after I bone smash like a really hard session and you might find it a little scary. So that's why I usually have to lay in my bed in bone smash because you could have some issues like getting CTE. If you're just like

punching your head really hard and you know obviously if you're not well braced things can go wrong and it can be horrible. So uh that's why I like to lay in my bed and brace myself. I wouldn't just do it like you know standing up. Thumb pulling. >> Thumb pulling it's cope. you know, you can't simulate uh distraction osteiogenesis uh you know of an MSSE which is a pallet expander uh from using your thumbs right it's ridiculous constant force needs to be applied uh or

else you know you you won't be able to maintain that progress or make any progress at all >> self tanning >> totally totally dope uh melennena 10 >> dope dope dying your hair or dying your eyebrows >> dope getting a perm contextual Cool. Shoe lifts. Dope. Uh, better fitting clothes. Dope. Using Face App to fraud on social media. Dope. Keto diet. Cope. And I'll explain why that's cope. Uh, right. So, people do the keto diet and then they'll they'll lose a lot of weight really

quick, but it's not actually atapostage. It's not fat, right? So, you're not actually getting like leaner in terms of body fat percentage. Uh, and you're going to start to feel really low energy. you're going to feel awful and you actually won't be able to recruit motor units in the gym, right? So, you won't be able to train uh, you know, additional muscle fiber, so your progress will be super suboptimal. People don't realize that you actually need glucose uh for your CNS to be able

to be able to, you know, function correctly. Uh, so if you're someone who's really into physique maxing in the gym and just feeling good and high energy overall, then ketogenesis is one of the worst things that you could do. Lifting weights. Dope. Uh, lifting weights every day. Dope. >> Cologne. >> Dope. Wearing rings and chains. >> Cope. Getting tattoos. >> Cope. Ompic. >> Dope. I mean, I'm going to just say Ompic. If we're and pretend we're talking about just GLP1s in general, the

same mechanism. Obviously, you're going to want to go with red tide, right? It's it's much more selective. uh you're hitting three different receptors uh instead of just the one from Osmpic uh and it's going to get you a lot better results. You won't feel as nauseated. Um so reticuide is a lot better, but it's the exact same class. They're both GLP-1 agonists. >> Voice training, >> uh cope. >> Teeth whitening, >> dope. >> Veneers, >> dope. Eye whitening,

>> dope. Chewing gum, >> um that's also contextual, right? It's going to depend on your massitor insertion. If you got super highly inserted massitors, right, and you start chewing really hard, uh, and you know, engaging in massitor hypertrophy, your face is actually going to get rounder and less angular. But if you got these really low set massitors, uh, and you're lean, it could actually make your jaw a lot more square. Uh, you know, like someone like Brad Pit ascended a lot

from, you know, the masstor hypertrophy. >> How do you improve your eyebrows? >> Uh, improving your eyebrows, the best way to go about that is going to be oral minoxidil. Now, uh I prefer that as opposed to the topical because the systemic drug is always going to be better. It's always going to be more efficacious. Uh and if you really want to enhance that, you could come in with dermac stamping, which is micro needling as well, um to to really make your results more efficient. So, that is the

best way to go about it. And to take things a step further, dying them is going to be a great way to make them look a little bit more full, um a little bit more striking. And you could also use what's called a micro brow pencil, right? A lot of men are super against using makeup and I don't know why. It's just about not getting caught, right? If you could use makeup and no one knows, then there's no reason why you shouldn't. Okay? So using a microb pencil to fill in any gaps and growth is

absolutely a good idea. So I would say that combining these four things, almost anyone could have perfect eyebrows. >> So why do you think men should wear makeup and what are the like what kinds of makeup do you wear? Uh, I think men should wear makeup because it's the best way to, you know, conceal different flaws in your face without actually addressing the underlying issue. So, it's a good way to bridge the gap temporarily. Right? If you've got super recessed infraorbital bones, which is

the bone right here, right under your eyes, um, you're going to start to have eye bags, right? Eye bags are not a result of not sleeping, right? It is, you know, a bone issue. You don't have support here. Your skin starts to sag as you age and you get those eye bags. Are they a result of fat loss as well? >> Yes. So, it's a combination of the two, but it's going to be exacerbated by having what's called a negative orbital vector and not having support in this area. Um, so it is largely a bone issue.

Um, so if you can conceal that issue by using a little bit of concealer uh to to kind of hide that and have people perceive your infraorbital bones as as being better, then why shouldn't you, right? No one's going to catch you uh if you learn how to apply things properly. So, it just makes no sense. If there's something that could literally improve you uh so easily, so cheap, why would you not do it? You know, that's how I always think about things. I don't think about societal implications uh or

something being gay because some read, you know, said that. Uh I'm just worried about results at all costs. That's that's always how I've thought about things. I I really don't care about anyone's opinion. Uh and the thing is, no one's going to have an opinion because if you're smart, you're not going to get caught. So on eye bags, uh, what else can you do to fix them? Is this filler like the best way? >> No, filler is very bad. I'm a huge anti-filler guy because the filler is

going to migrate, right? It doesn't stay in one place and it never dissolves. We look at the MRIs of people who have gotten fillers over, you know, decades or whatever, and it it just never leaves. Uh, you know, it can block lymphatic drainage in your face, right? So you you'll just never really be the same after getting filler treatments. Um, the worst is in the jaw. starts to migrate into your submental uh and you just look like you've got this turkey neck. Just so much can go wrong. Filler

is not meant to simulate bone. It's meant to simulate soft tissue. The only use case for filler could be if you've got super deep pitted acne scars >> to kind of fix that. But but that was the intended use of filler. Filler was never meant to replicate bone. That's what implants are for. So if you actually want to fix your, you know, eye bags and fix your inforbital bones, you've got to do titanium implants. And not only is it, you know, more efficacious and it's going to get you

better results is it's also a long-term solution, right? Filler needs to be constantly redone. Whereas implants are a oneanddone thing. It's going to last you a lifetime. Uh not to mention that filler is actually going to be more expensive if you look at it over a lifetime, constantly going every six months and getting it done. It's just a higher upfront cost with the titanium implants. >> Do you think volumefullene is cope? >> Uh I think it's a temporary solution at

best. That's what I speculate, you know, but I would in terms of, you know, inducing lipolysis, uh, I would say that there's really no evidence for that. >> I've done it for 6 months and I've noticed very minimal like effects on my under eyes. So, uh, but apparently it only works for some people. >> I would suggest that you start using concealer. >> Concealer >> for your under eyes. >> That makes sense. What is frauding? >> Frauding is exactly what we just talked

about. So, using makeup, um using shoe lifts, wearing uh you know, wigs, things like that. Uh these are all frauds because that's not actually who you are. Uh but it doesn't matter, right? It it doesn't matter. Women fraud the hardest out of anyone. They're wearing the most makeup. You know, they're wearing, you know, fake bras. Sometimes they're stuffing stuff in their bras as well. So, women are like the pinnacle fraud maxers. So, all I'm suggesting is why can't men compete on the same, you know,

level, you know? So, what are the best frauds for men? Uh, >> I would say that makeup, uh, and you know, shoulder pads, lifts, all these things are probably the best frauds. >> What would you rate Marlin on a scale from 1 to 10? >> I would rate Marlin between a 7.5 and an eight out of 10. So, I' I'd put him right around Chad. Uh, extremely good-looking, very mogger. Um, so so I'd rate him Chad. >> What's his like main negative? His main negative is his mandibular growth,

right? So, he's got a bit of a recessed mandible. You look at some of the clips of him in motion from the side profile. His chin is slightly recessed. Um, you know, obviously we're being hyperritical just for the objective rating. I think he's better looking than me before anyone goes crazy. Um, but but it's just like if we're being hyper analytical that like these small things take him down a little bit in terms of his points. >> Scared to ask for my rating, man. I I'll

ask this. Oscar positive because I already had K. Shammy and Dylan Latham uh roast me for different things. What's my best trait? >> Your best trait is actually your facial angularity, right? So, um you know, you've got super striking hollow cheeks, a very lean face. Um and obviously, you know, I've seen your TikTok videos from a couple years ago. You got a lot leaner, right? So, that strikingness really ascended you a lot. >> And then what's one like soft max you would recommend? uh softmax I would

recommend I would really advise you to look into fixing the under eyes with a little bit of concealer and I would say for your case uh I would actually place peptides in in the softmax tier I mean especially melano tan 2 just because of how risk averse it is I would say that melanotan 2 getting a tan would really ascend you a lot with your phenotype >> got it okay that makes sense those two things can can seriously ascend you the melanotan would would be the main driver, but you would look a lot better.

>> Yeah, I feel like I'm becoming more black pill myself because I do self-tan, but the melanitan from the results I've seen of other people, it just looks like way better. >> Yeah, you you really can't beat out, you know, the tan from from the UV, you know, it's just it's not possible to do. And tan, too, is going to, you know, spare you from a lot of the damage required to get to your goals, right? Because any amount of UV exposure is sun damage, right? it's damaging, you know,

your collagen production and things of this nature. So, our goal is to minimize the exposure to the highest degree possible. >> So, what are your top three peptides? >> Top three peptides. I would my top three peptides are reddish tide, you know, that's going to be the GLP1 that we discussed before. That's going to be Benotan 2 and that's going to be BPC 157. I really like BPC 157 for how cardioprotective it is. Uh, a lot of people are using it only for the recovery, which it's fantastic for that.

Um, but a lot of people don't realize that it's just it's super good for your heart um in terms of damage prevention. So that's why it's, you know, on my list as well. So 12% of Americans are on Ozic. It's definitely considered the miracle drug of the past few years. Do you see it as a miracle drug? >> Absolutely. Yeah, it really is a miracle drug. Um, with how absurd, you know, the food quality is and the selection in America, it's kind of just like a requirement, right? So, I always talk

about adapting to the times and you'll see a lot of people take the route of, oh, well, let's go back to, you know, the primal ages, right? Where we only eat steak and we only eat as our ancestors did. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. That can work, but let's just be realistic here. Uh, what's economically, you know, realistic for most people is not going to be eating steak uh three meals a day, right? So, uh using a pharmaceutical drug to just suppress your appetite a little bit.

when we see the safety profile of these things, we see how how, you know, it is long term. Uh, all the research is there and it it's really safe to use these drugs. I think it is a miracle and I think it's just, you know, kind of putting yourself in the right position for the the horrid times that we live in. >> So, is it objectively healthy like to if you're someone who takes ompic or uh read a true tide, is it objectively healthy to eat like 700 calories a day for an extended period of time?

>> No. Being in that restrictive of a caloric deficit is not healthy, right? Just depleting yourself of that many nutrients is is horrible for you. Um, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do that uh on a super shortterm uh, you know, basis to really hit your goals a lot quicker. It's really not that detrimental to your health. But if we're talking about you know people who are doing this and just borderline anorexia tier for extended periods of time, that's really horrible for you. doing a

uh you know weight loss period uh over an extended period of time is a lot healthier where you're only in a three to 500 calorie deficit. >> What's going to be the next miracle drug in the next few years? >> I think the me the next miracle drug will probably be something to do with hair. Um you know so that no one goes bald anymore. I would say that that's probably the next breakthrough that we get in science because there it is a little bit ridiculous and no one should be going bald with the stuff that's

available now. But uh you know a lot of the stuff for hair loss is only preventative, right? There's really not a lot you can do once it's already gone, right? So minoxidil uh can regrow hair that's you know fallen out, but you know once you're totally bald it's kind of just beyond saving. So we don't have that yet, but I think we will soon. Definitely within the next 5 years. So what's the best thing to take or what's the best peptide or drug to take for hair growth?

>> For hair growth. Um so the best drug for hair growth is minoxidil. The best drug for hair loss is going to be dutasteride, right? And they're very synergistic. You need to take both of them for an optimal hair loss protocol. >> Do you think there's any drug that big pharma is gatekeeping? Like something that's really effective? >> Absolutely. That's going to be Inkrlex, right? So generic IGF-1. uh it's really only accessible by like Elon Musk tier billionaires because it's so

outrageously expensive, right? We're talking about $180,000 uh a month for this stuff. So, uh you know, Increlex the the branded IGF-1 that that's what I would say because this is quite literally the best thing. >> It's $180,000 uh per month. Yeah. Around that. >> Got it. Okay. And what's it do for you? So, IGF is one of the best growth pathways. Um, you know, in terms of, you know, just getting more size. Um, it's a really important hormone in your body. Uh, there's a couple different growth

pathways. You know, there's obviously anabolism, IGF-1, insulin. Um, but IGF is going to be, you know, the the best thing that you could do because you're not actually interfering with your endocrine system. So, to hop on steroids, right, you're shutting down a natural process in your body. Whereas if you decide to take HGH or IGF-1 LR3, uh it's a good way to segue into, you know, the whole world of pharmarmacology in terms of optimizing, you know, different mechanisms in your body without fully

committing to something. So you could do HGH for a couple of weeks and stop it if you don't like it. So that's why I think it's it's the best. >> So IGF-1, what are the negative side effects? >> Uh the negative side effects, you know, it it could be slightly carcinogenic. Um, and there's a lot of potential side effects like, you know, organ hypertrophy, if you're using like, you know, the IG the HGH that converts into IGF-1 through your liver. Uh, so there's

always that, but um, you know, if you're using IGF-1 and that that's only being localized within the muscle, there's almost no side effects at all. And the other side effect uh, well, it's not really a side effect, but it's it's what can happen is, you know, you're downregulating your IGF-1 receptors. So what the IGF-1 is binding to if you're constantly uh you know injecting it you know rather than relying on your your natural production. >> What drug do you think everyone should

take? >> Testosterone 100%. I think everyone should be on testosterone. There's no reason that in in 2025 with all the endocrine disruptors out there that you're hearing about that you should be on the endocrine system. It's just outrageous to me why. uh you know, you'll hear all these videos from, you know, the big wellness people talking about how you have to do uh a list that's, you know, 20 pages long of things to avoid uh to to maintain optimal testosterone levels. And I'm

just sitting there thinking, why wouldn't it be a lot easier to just, you know, in injected in exogenously and not have to worry about uh you know, all these potential detriments to your life? It just doesn't make sense at all. So that's why I think everyone should be on test. >> How much test do you take? Right now I'm on 280 milligrams of testosterone. >> Is there a range that someone would be in that you wouldn't recommend them to take test? >> Yeah. So I really wouldn't recommend

people go much higher than I am right now because you start to detriment your face actually in terms of facial bloating. Testosterone is going to cause your face to bloat a little bit, carry a little bit more water. um and you start to run into the side effect profile at I would say around 350 to 400 milligs for most people, especially in my case. You're going to start to deal with hair loss, right? For most people, they're not going to actually be able to counteract that with just dutasteride.

They're also going to need a topical anti-androgen, and you're going to need something for your estrogen. And then it becomes just a whole to-do list and a whole pharmacy of drugs you need just to be able to take the testosterone. But if you're at a dosing protocol that that's similar to mine, uh you're not going to have to do much to maintain it. And people don't like to take a lot of things. They like to be easy. So that's why I recommend staying around 250. >> What is GH KCU?

>> GHKCU, uh that's a peptide that's very good for collagen uh and elastin synthesis. The problem is it has to be used for a few consecutive months to really start to take effect. uh when used systemically, right, when injected. So that's why I'm actually realizing more and more that the topical could actually be a better answer. And the other problem with GHKCU is it actually can interfere with your IGF-1 like we talked about before. Uh it can interfere with your receptors, play a role, and

you know, just potentially down reggulating them. Uh so it's just really not a good idea. uh the the evidence for that is not fully conclusive, but there's enough for it to cause concern and the fact that I wouldn't use it just because of what's out there. >> So, best peptide for fat loss, I'm guessing right at True Tide. >> Absolutely, without a doubt. >> Best peptide for muscle building, I'm guessing, uh IGF-1, >> LR3. Yep. >> Uh and then best drug for hair growth,

you said dutasteride and finasteride or not finasteride, minoxidil. Yes. >> Oral mixed together. Um, >> what's the best peptide for better erections? >> Best peptide for better erection? Well, it's not going to be a peptide. It's a different class of drugs. It's going to be CLS, right? So, that's a vaso diilator. Um, you know, a lot of people have, you know, taken like gas station Rhino pills and stuff like that. Uh, it's just not necessary to take that.

Take CLS. uh that vaso dilation is going to help 99% of people be 100% proficient in their erection quality and most of the time I've noticed that uh people with you know erectile dysfunction it's the result of something in their brain chemistry just you know issues with their dopamine from watching excess amounts of pornography right so that's pretty much the issue is sensitivity dopamine related issues it's usually not you know vasin constriction that's causing people to have uh poor

erections, right? But I always use Seialis because uh not only is it good for erection quality, it is one of the healthiest things that you could take for your blood pressure. There's literally no side effects to it. One of the best pharmaceuticals that you could take. >> What would you say the best and worst steroids for muscle growth? >> The best steroid is testosterone. Test is best by far. That's always a saying if you could remember one thing that I tell you, test is best. Um, and I would

say the worst by far is uh Masteron. You might think, hey, well, you said that you took that before. Uh, yeah, and I did, but it's very specific. Uh, you know, the usage for Masteron. It has to be taken at a certain period of your life for it to be effective. And that has to be during puberty so you could reap the benefits of the penile development, right? So, uh, once you're past that point, all Masteron is going to serve to do is cause your hair follicles to go to [ __ ] right? So, Masteron is horrible. Uh DHT is not very

good of a steroid. It's not very powerful. Uh so so I would speculate that that Master's the worst of the worst. >> What's the best diet for getting jacked? >> The best diet for getting jacked. Uh so that's going to be an interesting one because I don't really think that diet and food selection actually matters that much. I think that food is a numbers game and how you get there is not the most important part. It's about the macronutrients 100%. Right? So, and not

only about the macronutrients, but when you're consuming them. So, it's really important for you to have your carbs uh right before the gym or well, so that they're digested by the time you start working out. So, you can have the motor unit recruitment that we talked about. Um, and your protein obviously after the gym, say you work out first thing in the morning, we're going to want to frontload our day with all of our carbohydrates because that's the only time it's really necessary to have them.

And after that, only consuming protein. Uh, and the last macro that you might not have heard is dietary fat because there's no reason for it, right? Especially if you're enhanced, you don't need dietary fat because cholesterol is one of the things that helps naturals synthesize testosterone, but that's not an issue for me. Uh, and the other thing is you're not going to be able to have both of your growth pathways maximized, right? MT0 and myophibbral protein synthesis and motor unit recruitment

that comes from carbs and protein. you're not going to be able to maximize those two things and be in a caloric deficit if you're also having fat, right? So, fat doesn't help you with any growth pathway. It's it's not a necessary macronutrient. Uh, you know, it can help you a little bit with, you know, having omega-3s for, you know, cognition and, you know, sex drive, things like that. But in terms of just the gym, it's it's not ne necessary macronutrient to make gains. And you

might think, oh, well, I'm a natural. I need to eat dietary fat. You would be really surprised how insignificant uh its role in synthesizing testosterone is. >> So what's your diet look like in a day? >> My diet varies a good amount in terms of my food selection, but the macronutrients stay very similar. I'm having 250 grams of carbs before I work out. That's that's what I'm doing. That usually comes from oatmeal. That's a pretty uh static one just because I wake

up and it's there. So I have 250 grams of carbs before that and then the rest of the day is protein, right? Often rely on air fryer chicken because it's very convenient. I tastes good to me uh and it's cheap, you know. So those are the reasons. So uh it's just about the timing of the macronutrients and the macronutrient profile itself. So that's a full day of eating for me most days. >> What drugs do you take in a day? >> Hey, really fast. Did you guys know that we started this podcast a little over a

year ago? And in that time, we've had the chance to sit down with some of the best entrepreneurs in the world. But honestly, these conversations have kind of made me question everything I thought I knew about investing, saving money, or retirement. Growing up, I was taught put your money in a 401k, get a Roth IRA, and invest in the S&P 500. But what I've realized recently is things are changing fast. Crypto's becoming really mainstream. The S&P barely outpaces inflation, and I'm the guy that was

investing in it for the past few years inside of his retirement account. That's why I was so excited when I met the guys at iTrust Capital. They let you invest in gold and cryptocurrency directly in your IRA, which I didn't even know was legal. And if you have an existing Roth or 401k, you can transfer it over for no extra cost. You get all the tax advantages while getting to invest in assets that have way bigger upside and aren't tied directly to the dollar. With just a small 1% transaction fee, you can

buy Bitcoin, gold, even Fartcoin with a tax advantage retirement account. I'm currently in the process of transferring my accounts over to their platform, but if you guys want to do the same, go to joneil.comitrust. Anyway, back to the podcast. What drugs do I take in a day? That's a really good question. So, my whole regimen is um as follows. For growth, for the gym, I'm taking testosterone every single day because I'm taking a very short ester of testosterone to keep my hormonal profile

most in line with what it would be as a natural. That's testosterone propionate. That's the esester, right? Some people take long esters so they don't have to inject as frequently, but that can cause a plethora of issues, right? You can deal with more aromatization if you're having a huge swing in your testosterone, right? So, I try to keep it level. Uh, I take minoxidil for my hair. I take dutter for my hair. That's my hair protocol. Um, I also take Accutane. I take 7.5 milligrams of

Accutane a day. Uh, I've been taking this for a few years now because um, a lot of people often rely on topical trenan for anti-aging and collagen, but it's much better idea to take a systemic drug because a topical is not going to be as efficacious as something systemic and you're not going to hit the deeper layers of your epidermis. So, the Accutane is going to have a lot more uh, you know, of a prolific effect on you know your collagen and things of this nature uh, than any topical cream ever

would. So, I'm taking Accutane. Uh I use crystal meth uh so methamphetamine um for as a stimulant and to lean max right it's very suppressant of your appetite it's a very long acting stimulant so this is something uh that I've started using in place of aderall right because aderall is 75% dextroetamine and 25% levoetamine um so the levoetamine I really didn't like it it makes it's too much of a physical CNS stimulant so if you're trying to work it just can be too much

too jittery. Um whereas, you know, the the math is a little bit better uh in terms of its dopamine release, you know, just being targeted for the brain, crosses the bloodb brain barrier a lot quicker. Um and when you say crystal meth, it sounds outrageous because a lot of people don't know that meth has different isomers, right? So the the street meth, the uh lmethampetamine is what people are smoking, what people are tweaking out on, and what makes them, right? So this is not the stuff that I'm

using, right? I'm using like very very low therapeutic dosages of demethamphetamine, which is actually something that's prescribed by doctors. It's called doxin. Uh I say myth as a shock factor because of how outrageous it sounds. So people watching Breaking Bad and seeing meth, you hear, "Oh my god, this guy's so crazy." But you actually inform people, no, dysin is a prescribed medication. Uh, and I'm taking a very low dose of this, like 10 times lower than the uh prescribed

amount. Uh, you know, just as a a mild stimulant. It's much more mild than aderall actually. And, you know, uh, it works a little better for me. And I use it to lean max, right? So, um, I'm I'm pretty much using meth for hollow cheeks. >> So, that's kind of where we're at in terms of looks maxing. Um, but I just like to say stuff like that for the shock factor because it's just like an initial hook, >> but then I could really explain it to you and you realize, hey, that's

actually not so crazy. >> Okay. And then that's all you take in a day? >> No. And I also will take reddish tide once a week. I take melanotan 2 every single day. Two. >> How much reddish tide do you take? >> I take 15 milligrams. >> Got it. And that would be considered a fairly high dose. >> Extremely high dose. Yes. It's it's a giga dose of reddish tide. Um but I value my leanness extremely highly. Uh that can be you know certainly a problematic dose in terms of the heart

rate from the glucagon receptor. It's definitely not a healthy dose. Retishide will increase your lifespan. Retishide is incredibly healthy and good for you. Uh but definitely not at that dose. So um there's a little bit of nuance there. So I'm taking reddishide melanotan 2. Uh, I'll take IGF-1 uh, occasionally and HGH. >> Any recreational ones? >> Yeah. So, I I use a lot of pregabalin and blohen um, for, you know, being a little bit more low inhibition to kind of take me

over the edge. These are not things that are used daily, but they are used for weekends for going out because I think that alcohol is evil but necessary. But these things are a good way to replicate alcohol and copy similar mechanisms without being as toxic to your liver. Uh, you know, being as neurotoxic and ruining some of your growth pathways for the gym. >> So, they kill anxiety pretty much. Uh, but they don't make you dumb necessarily. >> Well, they they do and they certainly

can have neurotoxicity issues, but they're just not as bad as alcohol. Uh, and alcohol is really going to limit your ability to synthesize protein, uh, your MTOR. So, there's a lot of problems for for people who want to have a good physique and alcohol. You'll notice when you're hung over and you try to train in the gym, it just isn't the same. With this stack that I'm taking, it's not as problematic, right? So, um I I just don't advise this always on a broad scale because um you know, with alcohol,

it's rate limited. You really can't [ __ ] yourself up because if you start to drink too much, you throw up. Whereas this stuff um you know, if not done under careful supervision, people can take too much. people can seize, people can run into issues and uh I just don't trust a lot of normies IQ to be able to use this reasonably. Uh but I do trust myself. >> You're essentially testing out human optimization for an entire generation. Uh in 10 years time, what do you think we'll learn from your experiment?

>> I think that we are going to start to see a lot more optimization of puberty, right? Um, in terms of what's possible from ascending, you really can't do much past when you're done developing because we're basically elevating natural growth pathways and we're taking things to the next level. But on those once those are closed, you know what's possible just the the rate of ascension is a lot lower. So what we're going to see over the next few years is a lot more

willingness for teenagers to start using things like HGH to get taller aromatase inhibitors and we're already seeing that the rate of teen peed users is through the roof from what it used to be. Uh and as peptides become more accessible um you know and as things start to get more normalized through social media, people like me talking about them uh it's just going to be more widespread. >> Do you know anyone else that takes as many drugs as you do? Yeah. Well, both of my roommates, we're we're all using

steroids. Uh pretty much the the same cycles. Um you know, we we're all running reasonably low doses of testosterone. I can consider myself quite reasonable with my steroid usage, right? I'm not doing a blast. I'm not really trying to prioritize my physique over my face. I'm just trying to have like a little bit of a lifestyle type physique. 280 milligrams of testosterone. If you compare that to what bodybuilders and IFBB pros are taking, taking like a tenth of of what anyone, you know, who's super committed

to the gym is taking. So, it's really not fair that people will compare my physique to them. I'm like, dude, I'm on the tenth of the dosage. So, we all use reasonably low amounts of test. Um, we'll use HGH and and pretty much all the same stuff. >> So, if you have a son one day, uh, naturally 6'2 with a good face, would you recommend that he did what you did? Absolutely. Yeah. Because I would be very confident that under my supervision, we could really make a lot of progress and make sure that no

complications arise, right? Because there was no supervision in my case. I had to figure things out on my own. Um, you know, but now that I've done that and now that I understand even more now, I would be very confident to to recommend that to one of my kids. I noticed that you use the language a lot that most people aren't able to uh synthesize the information correctly, apply it correctly. Uh and this is a concept I went into with Kareem as well, but like what is the IQ pill? And like

why does IQ matter so much with all these things? >> The IQ pill is everything. No one will be able to ascend without a high IQ, right? to be able to, you know, come up with the amount of money you need to get some of these surgeries and do, you know, things like, you know, peptides and steroids because it's not cheap. Uh, you're going to have to have a high IQ, right? And not only that, you're going to also have to have a high IQ to understand the reason that you need to do these things and be able to make

observations in society that are important enough uh for you to decide to take this course of action because it's an extremely insane course of action. Uh, it's definitely pushing the limits on on life. So, I think that's only something that people with almost neurode divergence are going to be able to do um and actually apply, right? I I think normal people want to live in fantasy land. They won't have the IQ to be able to have that kind of amount of money saved up and be able to have the

means to get these surgeries. So, it quite literally is a brutal IQ pill. That's why most people will never ascend. It's not about, you know, their their looks and their genetic base. It's just their lack of of urgency, their lack of willingness to do what it takes. And that stems from IQ. >> Do you know what your IQ is? >> No. It it would be ridiculous for me to to site some sort of online IQ test. Um, unless something is actually, you know, done in person and verified, there

there's no reason to say it. And I think a lot of people will take IQ tests with a high frequency on the internet and that leads them to believe that their IQ is a lot higher. But once you start to take these tests repeatedly, you get better at them. And people will will take like 10 IQ tests in a row, eventually end up with a good score and then start flexing that on the internet and telling their friends. And it's like, no, it's got to be a scored in-person test. Uh or else it's not

certified, you know. >> Yeah, it's interesting. It it makes it seem almost unreliable in a way that if the more you take it, the better you get at it. Um. >> Yes. >> So, I guess it would have to be the first time someone ever takes it and that's the only one that counts. >> Uh, it's got to be in person at a certified testing location. >> But if you do that twice, would you say that >> they don't let you you can't you can't do it twice in a row. So, it's like a

regulated process. That's why um unless someone has uh you know, one of those results to site as their IQ, I'm like, get the [ __ ] out of here, you know? And also, I I do think it's a little bit ridiculous and like almost feels narcissistic to like say your IQ out loud. I just don't think it's necessary. Like, we know people are smart. We know people are dumb. There's no point in me sitting here and saying, "Oh, my IQ is X." You know? >> Well, let me ask you this. What would be

an IQ that would be reasonable to apply everything that you've said um properly? >> 110. >> Okay. And then averages 90 to 100. >> Depends on the race. >> It depends on what race you are, but white people are going to be around 100. So, um, that that's a little bit above average IQ. >> Have you ever had anything go wrong in your looks maxing journey? >> Yes. So, I've had to go to the hospital once before back when I was 16 years old because my blood pressure got up to 190.

And the reason for that was was an extremely uh excess amount of sodium intake from table salt uh in conjunction with a high high dosage of testosterone. Um so I had to go to the hospital to get an EKG, make sure everything was fine and get some blood pressure medication. But it wasn't like I had a heart attack or something like that. I just, you know, was doing my morning check of my blood pressure um or or weekly check, whatever it was. I saw that I was like, I'm gonna go I'm going to make sure

everything's okay and get a prescription medication right away. Um so that was probably the worst thing that's happened to me um in terms of my uh you know experience with pharmaceuticals. And then on the neurode divergent portion you've talked about and I've seen in your content uh being neurotypical versus being neurode divergent. How does that play into this whole community and kind of the persona you've built? And do you think you're neurode divergent? Do you think you have autism?

>> Um, I would say that I am definitely on the spectrum. I've never been um, you know, professionally diagnosed with autism, but um, you know, just personal diagnosis, I know that's kind of ridiculous. I would speculate that I'm on the spectrum. Uh, and I used to think that was a really bad thing, but now I'm thinking that it's like actually a superpower really because you're able to see things and make observations that it just seems like it goes over every normy's head, right? So, just the way I

see the world and my worldview, it it's actually really favorable. The way I could process information, um, you know, cut out copes and just, you know, kind of all these different things. Um, I've really started to like my brain chemistry a lot. So, I would say that I'm definitely somewhere on the spectrum. I'm not your average normal guy. I'd say that I'm fairly sociable, but you know, the things that I'm doing, my interests, um, how obsessive I get over things, uh, these are all

definitely neurode divergent, and that's true within the community to a large degree. I would say that people who are as into looks maxing as me, uh, definitely aren't always neurotypical. I'd say that almost no one is. So, what are the signs in your opinion like of someone who has autism or is on the spectrum? >> Um, I would say that it's usually just >> or how do you think your brain works differently? >> I think just the way that my brain differentiates from that of a normie is

just how hyperlogical I am. I am not willing to, you know, cope at all. And if you tell me something or if I have a realization, even if it completely mind [ __ ] me and flips my worldview on its side, if it's true, then I I just accept it without a second's glance, right? So, um, and I just don't think that's true for a lot of people. I think that if you told people that, you know, they're they're living a lie or, you know, maybe, for example, you know, they're they're just [ __ ] their lives up

entirely, they would cope. They would come up with all these different things. But if if someone told me that they provided evidence, I have no choice but to just accept it. >> Another I've never done this before um on a podcast, but this question I've asked people in person. Uh when I ask you to picture a house, what do you picture? Describe it to me. When I picture a house, I picture a twostory um house that's actually drawn with colored pencil for some reason. >> Is that one you've seen before?

>> No. >> Interesting. >> I don't know what I I don't imagine a real house. >> Is it pretty detailed or is it pretty like uh just like the square and the triangle on top? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I've noticed some people like uh on the spectrum are only able to picture things that they've seen before. I'll ask you this one. This is another way. So, uh picture an apple. Describe it to me. There's condensation on it. It's dark

red. Um and I'm just visually picturing it. Um I just don't know the the exact name of of this type of apple. That's the issue. >> Is it one you've seen before or you like Yes. >> Okay. That's interesting, too. >> Huh. Yeah. Guys, uh, picture an apple right now. Some people picture a black and white apple. Some people picture like an emoji. Um, I think the more >> it's basically like I can see it in my brain. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. It's funny because a house isn't

some like if I said an apartment that like you might not picture like a drawing of like a kids drawing of an apartment. You might picture like one you've actually seen. Yes. you know, that's kind of why you have to ask different ones. But >> it's really interesting. Um, so 20 years from now, >> if you look back at your life, >> what do you think you would say to yourself now? >> I would be extremely thankful that I took on so many hardships and did so many difficult things to get myself to

the advantageous position that I'll be when I'm 40 because of my efforts. Right? Looks maxing is not the ends, it's the means, right? So, I'm using this uh to kind of decide what I want to do next. I'm still on the journey phase. I'm still developing, figuring out what I want to do in the world, but I've just come to the conclusion that whatever I decide to do in a few years will be infinitely easier because of my efforts, because of my looks maxing. Um, so I think I'll be very happy with the hard

work that I've done. And if you had to say something to Clav uh a few months or weeks from now based on when your surgery is, say your surgery gets completely botched, what would you say to yourself? I would say that I did something brave that no one else was willing to do. And I would be extremely proud of myself for the dedication and just the the how brave it was to to take that extra step that no one else seems to be willing to take, right? It I compare it all the time to starting a business, right? What

if it fails? What if you lose everything? At least you were willing to try. And I think that's just being able to say that that I took that extra step, that I gave it my all, that I gave it a shot, will be rewarding enough to me that if something goes wrong, I'll always have that. >> And if it looks great, what would you say to yourself? >> You did good, man. You did good. You uh because it was a daunting process to have to be able to schedule this whole thing, all the the MRIs, the CAT scans.

Uh it's not easy to get surgery. It's months of planning, months of waiting, anticipation, anxiety. Um, so I I'll be very satisfied once it's all behind me and I'm I'm ascended. I'm I'm all done. >> You're going to mog yourself in the edits in the future. >> Exactly. Yeah, >> that'll be I wonder if people will do that. Yeah, that'll be fun because it's like, are you the same person or you're like million-dollar man where you're

like surgically modified with titanium? >> Clav, uh, last two questions here. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? >> I I can't point out one thing because I don't really think that anyone has really ever given me worthwhile advice that is just something that immediately jumps out at me like that. I think people have often led me astray. Um, and I've had to come to conclusions on my own and, you know, kind of figure things out for myself. that's always what I've

done. Um I think that's always what I'll have to do because I think people are so wrong uh you know in terms of their worldview and what they recommend to do that I just can't ever think that a normie will will send me on the right track. It just seems outrageous to me. And that seems super egotistical and shitty to say, but I just rely on my own observations and my own anecdotes and research more than than anyone's word, and I think I'll always be that way. >> What's the worst piece of advice you've

ever received? >> I'd say that the worst piece of advice I've ever received is to just be confident, right? Um, and this advice has come from a a you know, vast amount of people. You see it all the time. It's become a meme now because of how ridiculous it is. But this is something I heard growing up all the time. When I would use, you know, when I would be hyperfixated on the gym and my looks and using Accutane, I'd hear this from my own mom. Just be confident, just, you know, just do this, just be more

sociable. The reason it turned into a meme was because of how horrible it was. Uh, and this is the advice that a lot of blue pillars would give for for many years. A lot of people fell for this scope. they would, you know, try to force themselves to go out and cold approach girls and just be confident. And time after time, I'm sure so many people will have relatable uh experiences with this of them trying to be confident, but it doesn't work, right? Because the shortfall is an aesthetic one or it's something else.

Um, so so people are are like, "Hey, maybe it's actually, you know, a little bit deeper. Maybe it's actually because uh of my attraction and not this this arbitrary confidence ridiculous cope garbage. So that that's probably the worst advice that I've received and I'm sure a lot of other people have. >> So instead of just be confident, what would you say is the recommendation? >> Just just do whatever it takes is what I would say. Um kind of piggybacking off

of Rich Piana's whole mentality. I think I'm someone who's very similar and that's someone I I grew up watching. Rich Piana. Uh, obviously I started watching him after he passed away. Um, but Rich Piana kind of just shaped my mentality a little bit with the way that he went about things. He was really willing to do whatever it takes, right? So, blast whatever gear, uh, eat 12 meals a day, uh, you know, be force-feeding himself, have to drink egg whites, even though, you know, in the

videos where he's trying to eat them, it was just disgusting and wretched, but he did it every single day and just without fail. So, that kind of just really like inspired me to to just do whatever it takes. Um, and I'm knowing now that with how crazy the world is, uh, it takes getting surgery, it takes using steroids, it takes fraud maxing and doing all this [ __ ] uh, to be able to compete in today's dating market. >> Beautiful. Well, everyone, uh, this has been your guest, Clavicular. Where can people find

you? >> They could find me, uh, on Instagram at clvicular0ero, um, Tik Tok and YouTube. And, yeah, check it out. Awesome. Appreciate you coming on, man. Thank you.